“That’s why they failed — they didn’t understand it”. An Afghan ally on Islamist extremism, Afghanistan, and the failure of the West

 

I am talking with Lt. Col. Daoud (not his real name) of Afganistan Air Force, a lawyer and an international relations expert.

The other day, Nilofar Ayoubi¹ published a post on X. She wrote: “It's fascinating how nobody seems to be talking about this! The massacres and war crimes committed in my country by Western forces seem to be perceived as normal by the West. Yet, when one of their own trained ‘monsters’ strikes back, yet again we have to bear the blame and face the consequences collectively. If you delve a bit deeper, you'll discover which cities and districts were affected and which community was primarily targeted. Perhaps that's why it doesn’t receive much attention or cause enough uproar!”

https://x.com/NilofarAyoubi/status/1995588091768439099?s=20

 Daoud: Her point seems to be that Western forces bombed Pashtun-majority cities, districts, and villages — and that she is likely referring to civilian casualties.

This particular piece of news that she is referring to pertains to the British special forces deliberately killing fighting-aged Afghans.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-special-forces-unit-had-deliberate-policy-to-kill-fighting-aged-males-in-afghanistan-inquiry-told-13477589

Daoud: Exactly, many such incidents have happened. Generally, the war took place in Pashtun-inhabited areas, and whatever happened unfolded there. That’s why it hasn’t generated much noise. For example, in one incident involving civilian casualties from American airstrikes in the district where I was born, 130 innocent women and children were killed — and no one was ever held accountable. I personally knew most of the people who were killed, because I grew up there. That’s why, when I later served on the targeting board, I did everything in my power to ensure that nothing like that would ever happen again.

Why didn't that phenomenon of unlawful killings generate much noise? Was it because Pashtuns are the majority, so no one thinks it necessary to come to their defence? I don't understand the mechanism.

Daoud: Pashtuns generally have little interest in media, Twitter, hashtags, or civil protests. Their culture in this regard is quite weak, and only the educated and enlightened Pashtuns make some use of these tools.

Well, there have been lots of hashtags recently regarding the Washington D.C. shooting attack. The ‘monster that strikes back’ is an Afghan national.

Daoud: Investigations now show that the suspect had adopted extremist views after arriving to the US. That was exactly my assessment as well. A few days ago, I wrote on Twitter that Islamist networks in the West are far more structured and sophisticated in spreading extremist ideology than they are in Afghanistan. A clear example is how they mobilized both Muslim and non-Muslim Americans to rally in support of Hamas.

I read reports of the murderer having some grave psychological problems, and the reports did not mention any contacts with extremist networks.

Daoud: Well, there is a blind spot here. People who face severe stress, depression, and other serious psychological issues often turn to religion as a last resort. Religion offers them the promise of paradise and diminishes the value of this world in their eyes. I believe he chose a path that led to the killing of innocent people in an attempt to seek forgiveness from God for his past sins. Here, clerics claim that if one kills a non-Muslim, they go straight to heaven. This person targeted American soldiers, not civilians, because he believed this would guarantee his passage to paradise.

I am describing these issues from his perspective, not my own, because I am familiar with the different mindsets present in Islamic societies. Islam uses highly sophisticated techniques to stir emotions. If you listen to a cleric for just two hours, with all the stories he tells about heaven, hell, this life, and the next, you practically detach from this world, and the value of the present reality fades in your mind and heart. But the emotions that clerics generate in a person are not permanent; they must be constantly reinforced. Terrorist groups exploit the moment when someone reaches the peak of these emotions and push them toward committing inhumane acts, such as killing other people.

All it takes is a few months of not listening to a cleric or religious propaganda for those feelings to fade.

 

What then can be done to make those clerics stop their inciting?

Daoud: Secular governments in Islamic societies can silence them.

 

What about Western democracies?

Daoud: Islamic cultural centers promote this propaganda. Last year, Germany shut down several of these centers.

 

Should all such centers be banned? Are all of them radical or getting radicalized after a while?

Daoud: You can’t find a non-radical cleric. Those who appear non-radical are only pretending. The nature of a cleric is radical. In the United Arab Emirates, clerics are not allowed to give speeches, preach, or talk about religion in mosques, especially when it comes to discussing political, economic, or cultural matters with the public. Their only duty is to lead prayers. As a result, extremist ideas have not taken root in that society.

 

I wonder about this characteristic of Islamic clerics. In Christianity, the clergy is very diverse, even in one and the same church, depending on individual priest or pastor. And I would say they are usually too lukewarm than too radical.

Daoud: In Afghanistan, when clerics step onto the pulpit, the first thing they say is ‘May God destroy America, may God destroy Europe.’ They claim that no Christian or Jew can ever be a true friend to a Muslim, and that their death at the hands of Muslims is permissible. Then they say that if you are killed by a Christian or a Jew, you go to heaven — and if you kill them, you also go to heaven. In paradise, they promise you seventy-two of the most beautiful wives, seventy thousand servants dedicated solely to you, and magnificent palaces. They insist this world is merely a test, a toy with no real value, and that an entire lifetime here equals no more than one hour in the grave or the afterlife.

What clerics promote often diverges sharply from the Qur’an itself. Many of them justify violence against all Jews and Christians — combatants and civilians alike — while the Qur’an explicitly differentiates between those who fight and those who do not.

A person who feels defeated in this world — unable to build a family, unable to find a job, and so on — hears this propaganda and starts calculating: if a lifetime in this world is worth only one hour in the next, then maybe it’s worth sacrificing this world to secure the next. Then he asks himself, ‘What should I do to make my afterlife better?’ And sometimes those questions lead to dangerous answers.

 

And what is the answer in the case of the Washington D.C. suspect?

Daoud: Have you ever wondered why that Afghan citizen chose to target the National Guard with gunfire? Why didn’t he shoot at civilians? That way he could have killed more people. Try to think like a prosecutor, constantly interrogating each angle and questioning yourself until you reach a more accurate analysis.

 

Could it be a jihadi crime? An attack on a state that is not Islamic?

Daoud: This shooting was a disturbing mix of religious motivation and psychological disturbance. As I explained, the person sought both to reach paradise and to escape the torment of the reality he was experiencing. Muslims carry a very negative view of suicide, because in Islam it is considered a grave and sinful act. Anyone who takes their own life is believed to burn in hell forever. So what is the solution for a Muslim who wants to escape their current life, yet also wants to avoid hell?

 

So he wanted to get killed?

Daoud: That’s precisely my understanding. I’m not claiming that everything I say is absolutely correct, but at least this is how I see it.

 

But targeting civilian kafirs could have gotten him in paradise, too, couldn't it.

Daoud: No — Islam strictly forbids this.

You say Islam forbids killing civilians. So why do all the jihadi terrorists kill mostly civilians?

Daoud: Well, many so‑called Muslim terrorists and clerics commit actions that Islam explicitly forbids. They stone women for alleged adultery, even though the Qur’an clearly prescribes only one hundred lashes. But the clerics ignore this explicit ruling and instead rely on a fabricated hadith about stoning, using it as the basis for executing both women and men accused of adultery.

 

Why do they do it? How do they justify it?

Daoud: I don’t know how they justify it, but in reality we’ve seen that groups like the Taliban and ISIS have even killed Muslims during prayer inside mosques. Maybe they aim to create fear and terror in societies by killing civilians.

In the Qur’an, jihad is framed as a defensive military strategy — you are permitted to fight only in response to aggression, and only to protect yourself. But many Muslims and clerics promote jihad even in the absence of any attack. Similarly, the Qur’an states that people may be invited to Islam solely through persuasion, not force. Yet in practice, Muslim rulers throughout history spread Islam across regions such as Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Central Asia, Egypt, and others by the sword and through bloodshed — a clear contradiction of the Qur’anic mandate.

Where in the Qur’an or in Islam is it stated that you may force women to follow a specific dress code? The Qur’an only recommends modesty, and its guidance on hijab refers simply to covering the hair and the chest. Yet in practice, many Muslims impose extreme measures — black gloves, dark glasses so the eyes cannot be seen, and full-face veils — as if this were a religious requirement. In short, the Islam presented in the Qur’an is fundamentally different from the version these groups enforce.

 

It would be impossible to ban clerics' preaching in Western democracy. Free speech, civil liberties and so on. But perhaps each of them could be monitored and banned from preaching once he gets radical? Or what other solution could there be?

Daoud: Another solution is for qualified experts — not clerics — to interpret the Qur’an. The Qur’an can be interpreted in many different ways, and clerics exploit this flexibility to their advantage, extracting the most extreme and frightening rulings from it.

 

So all the Afghans go to their mosque each Friday and that’s what they hear every week?

Daoud: Exactly. Afghans go to the mosque five times a day, and on Fridays they listen to the clerics’ hateful speeches.

 

Five times a day to the mosque? Is it typical for Muslims in general or just for Afghanistan?

Daoud: Praying five times a day in the mosque is a religious obligation and exists in all Islamic societies.

 

I know about praying five times a day, I just thought one could do it any place, including his own home.

Daoud: In a village with a population of around one thousand, there are several mosques. The number of mosques is so high that anyone only needs to walk two to five minutes to reach one. Only in cases where there is a valid reason preventing you from going to the mosque can you pray at home.

 

That’s a new one on me. I have always thought it's like in Christianity: one church for lots of people and in a larger area. And people going there once a week, only those exceptionally pious go every day.

Daoud: Even Western governments that were present in Afghanistan for twenty years had limited and partial information about this society. That’s why they failed — they didn’t understand it.

You can never effectively govern a society you fail to understand. The Western powers lacked knowledge of this society, still do, and yet they continue to craft and enforce policies based on flawed assumptions.

 

What else do the Western powers overlook?

Daoud: Jamaat-ud-Da’wa (Tablighi Jamaat), a transnational organization in which people actively participate, traveling from village to village while preaching about religion. Even if you sent the devil with them, by the time he returns from the journey, he would speak of God and Islam, because their techniques for indoctrinating Muslims are so advanced.

The issue doesn’t end here. In Afghanistan, there are tens of thousands of religious schools where millions of students are indoctrinated around the clock, instilling hatred toward non-Muslims deep in their minds and hearts. People who spend years in these schools learning to spread hatred — are they expected to build bridges and roads, or to heal and help the people?

 

So what should the West have done in Afghanistan? Prohibit the teachings of the clerics? Close the schools? As a result, we would have a national revolt.

Daoud: The West did not truly fight the Taliban and, in some cases, even prevented Afghan forces from confronting them. The West could have introduced modern thinking to Afghanistan’s villages, because that’s where real transformation happens, not in the big cities. In the larger villages, they should have provided electricity, television, roads, schools, and hired teachers to reduce clerics’ influence. Instead, they focused only on illuminating the big cities, promoting stylish clothing, showcasing a few women in ministries and media, and claiming, ‘We’ve done so much.’

Right now, the Taliban are fully focused on the villages and non‑urban areas, because that’s where their enemies can establish strongholds. Big cities can never truly rise up; once the Taliban kill a hundred people, the rest disappear into hiding.

 

Do you believe Afghanistan's transformation can happen independently from any foreign power?

Daoud: I’m not very optimistic. Because its intellectuals and educated professionals are mired in corruption and tribalism. If I were in charge, I would purge this society of extremism — even if it had to be done by force. 😄

 

Like Daoud Khan² 😉

Daoud: Exactly. But I am not the one in power. 😕

 

What makes one gain power?

Daoud: The only way to gain power in Afghanistan for most of the past century has been through foreign support.

 

What makes the change so difficult?

Daoud: I genuinely believe that all of us should stand together to build a better world — one in which every child, every woman, and every man can feel happiness, free from injustice, war, and the suffering caused by human hands. But Afghanistan is a society that has experienced forty years of fighting for survival. And people who spend four decades in a struggle to survive don’t always use honest methods; they rely on deception, lies, and betrayal when it benefits them. Over time, these behaviors have hardened into an ugly habit — even a cultural pattern.

Personally, I’ve become disappointed in Afghans. I have never harmed anyone in my life, and I’ve never wished for an innocent person to suffer in any way. Yet I see many people taking pleasure in the difficulties I’m going through, even though I once stood by them in their suffering.

Here, fourteen-year-old girls are waiting to get married as soon as possible. Do you know why? Because at the time of marriage, the groom’s family might give them a mobile phone and clothes worth around two hundred dollars. Here are women who live day and night in suffering, poverty, and violence. This society needs to change, and those who can bring about this change are the ones who feel the pain of these women and have no desire for personal wealth.

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¹ Nilofar Ayoubi – an Afghan dissident and refugee, on the Taliban hit list. A journalist and activist, a member of the Leadership Council in the World Liberty Congress. Third in the ranking of 100 Women in Business in Poland, where she found her refuge after the fall of Kabul.

² Mohammad Daoud Khan – long-serving prime minister (1953-1963) and president of Afghanistan (1973-1978), successfully introduced progressive social, economic, and educational reforms.